tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7281599665527326905.post9062176746094906274..comments2024-03-17T12:00:55.617-06:00Comments on Donna K. Weaver: Grammar - What the Heck is Past Perfect?Donna K. Weaverhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15763832177263927311noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7281599665527326905.post-31426787488849744292013-04-16T07:43:21.767-06:002013-04-16T07:43:21.767-06:00Thank you for such a clear explanation, Donna, I&#...Thank you for such a clear explanation, Donna, I'm probably a serial offender, but know to keep an eye out now. Catherine Noblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04779799397032396279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7281599665527326905.post-37034528418939759572013-03-27T09:45:52.663-06:002013-03-27T09:45:52.663-06:00I think I've learned more from you grammar pos...I think I've learned more from you grammar posts than I did from 18 years of school. Probably because you give such great and easy to understand examples. <br /><br />Have I been able to implement it in my writing? Probably not 100% but I'm picking up on things I didn't before.<br /><br />Thanks for the lesson, Donna :)<br /><br />MelanieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7281599665527326905.post-51204357600202168242013-03-26T11:51:26.817-06:002013-03-26T11:51:26.817-06:00This is a really great post! Thanks for the advice...This is a really great post! Thanks for the advice.<br /><br />www.modernworld4.blogspot.comGina Gaohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09032273127593718883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7281599665527326905.post-15072815761199772872013-03-26T08:17:05.357-06:002013-03-26T08:17:05.357-06:00Great post. There are so many verb tenses in Engli...Great post. There are so many verb tenses in English, it boggles the mind!Melissahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08516493326566981116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7281599665527326905.post-17697376497724743012013-03-26T00:56:21.343-06:002013-03-26T00:56:21.343-06:00I couldn't agree with you more! It's somet...I couldn't agree with you more! It's something I make sure to do properly if I have to tell something that happened before the story's present, even if I'm already writing in past tense. It's something I've had to pick people up on before, if they've asked me to edit their work, and I never know exactly how to explain to them WHY they need to add the word 'had' to the sentence, but this is good and helpful so thank you! Bonnee Crawfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01513268628209169538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7281599665527326905.post-61744031765043024322013-03-25T16:50:16.597-06:002013-03-25T16:50:16.597-06:00My college instructors insisted that we should all...My college instructors insisted that we should all write the way we speak. Speaking takes talent too! Intangible Heartshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05047040538015079182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7281599665527326905.post-24200804428019851732013-03-25T15:25:02.862-06:002013-03-25T15:25:02.862-06:00I agree. I hate being confused when I read flashba...I agree. I hate being confused when I read flashbacks. And sometimes the confusion comes not because I can't tell where the flashback starts, but because I can't tell where it ends.Julie Daineshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08350205936357263571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7281599665527326905.post-2882192750887541772013-03-25T15:19:16.688-06:002013-03-25T15:19:16.688-06:00I should have known this but didn't :) Thanks....I should have known this but didn't :) Thanks.Angela Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09243582290698922119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7281599665527326905.post-7371344863608459302013-03-25T07:41:17.370-06:002013-03-25T07:41:17.370-06:00Great advice! Thank you from one who really needed...Great advice! Thank you from one who really needed this. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04419944234795666194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7281599665527326905.post-78960340259749281582013-03-25T06:13:58.000-06:002013-03-25T06:13:58.000-06:00Great advice and clarification. I think sometimes ...Great advice and clarification. I think sometimes we concentrate on other aspects of the ever-changing publishing world and forget about some of the details. Grammar, whether we like it or not, is important to our storytelling. Thanks for the reminder. S.A. Larsenッhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06241633272588383935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7281599665527326905.post-82388615663049366852013-03-24T15:17:04.755-06:002013-03-24T15:17:04.755-06:00Nancy--as long as it's clear to the reader, I ...Nancy--as long as it's clear to the reader, I agree. In the books I spoke of in the post, it was not.Donna K. Weaverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15763832177263927311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7281599665527326905.post-49382040377753948722013-03-24T14:55:59.455-06:002013-03-24T14:55:59.455-06:00It should always be clear what came before the sce...It should always be clear what came before the scene, but you also DO NOT want to overdo the use of "had". It acts as a filter between the narrator & the reader. As long as there is at least one point where the narrator uses "had" to show the event came before, that's all that's really necessary. It's one of those newish rules publishers prefer to help keep the reader in the moment, even if the event comes before the scene. Nancy Thompsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05735642863696266005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7281599665527326905.post-80219438366390204812013-03-24T08:53:28.460-06:002013-03-24T08:53:28.460-06:00Far Away--glad it was useful.
Jeff--yeah.
Jess--...Far Away--glad it was useful.<br /><br />Jeff--yeah.<br /><br />Jess--I know, right? I think one of the best things about studying another language is what it teaches us about our own.Donna K. Weaverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15763832177263927311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7281599665527326905.post-48711500829379083282013-03-24T08:43:10.309-06:002013-03-24T08:43:10.309-06:00I swear, I never knew about how many grammatical f...I swear, I never knew about how many grammatical forms there were until I took Spanish, where I was introduced to things like past perfect, imperfect, conditional, subjunctive...Jesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14121018905141253640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7281599665527326905.post-88117292443350078492013-03-24T06:13:13.134-06:002013-03-24T06:13:13.134-06:00I'm a big fan of past perfect (hmm, if 'pe...I'm a big fan of past perfect (hmm, if 'perfect'='past' grammatically, then maybe it could be 'perfect perfect'), but I tend to wander a bit in my writing so it's kind of necessary. For the longer scenes, I start in PP and shift into past in the midst of it, but I will sort of 'dot' PP into it, should it ever seem unclear that I'm still in the past past. When I'm back in the main narrative, I usually try to do something to reground the reader to the current scene.<br /><br />See? I told you I wander in my writing!JeffOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07947660745120963286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7281599665527326905.post-50576349428622162002013-03-23T16:57:06.582-06:002013-03-23T16:57:06.582-06:00Ah, a post just for me. Thanks! I'm working on...Ah, a post just for me. Thanks! I'm working on it.farawayeyeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17578277501054242356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7281599665527326905.post-21640019486070792542013-03-23T14:28:23.909-06:002013-03-23T14:28:23.909-06:00L.G.--yes, this discussion has been looking back a...L.G.--yes, this discussion has been looking back at some of my own where I might have used past perfect when I should have use simple perfect.<br /><br />Botanist--I think that's where our betas are important. We should pay attention to when they say they're confused.<br /><br />Laura--makes me wonder how long the flashback should be before we consider switching some simple perfect in the middle or how long one would be where we'd need to slip in some more past perfect to remind the reader that it's a flashback.Donna K. Weaverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15763832177263927311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7281599665527326905.post-5041767010150020362013-03-23T13:46:06.995-06:002013-03-23T13:46:06.995-06:00Ooh, and I found this link--this guy suggests for ...Ooh, and I found this link--this guy suggests for really long flashbacks, you might have to revert to past perfect more often than just the beginning and end: http://www.davidfarland.net/writing_tips/?a=129<br /><br />(I love grammar. :D I'll stop spamming your blog now, lol.)Laura Josephsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14830522961950137269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7281599665527326905.post-21432050464080704132013-03-23T13:40:54.928-06:002013-03-23T13:40:54.928-06:00I did some more research and I see where a lot of ...I did some more research and I see where a lot of people suggest doing it the way you described--enter with past perfect, exit with past perfect, and do simple past in the middle. I've had some authors separate flashbacks (using simple past) with a scene break to indicate that it's a time jump, if it's a really long scene.<br /><br />I learned something new today, too! :D Laura Josephsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14830522961950137269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7281599665527326905.post-70318773870121648562013-03-23T13:14:40.883-06:002013-03-23T13:14:40.883-06:00I make sure to use past perfect when switching to ...I make sure to use past perfect when switching to events prior to the scene I'm in. However, like Ilima mentioned, I revert to simple past tense once I've established the flashback, even if it's only a few sentences. However, if you do that it is important to leave good cues to bring the reader back to the current scene!Botanisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12098709722475364465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7281599665527326905.post-86461955752590762372013-03-23T12:19:06.024-06:002013-03-23T12:19:06.024-06:00I always wondered why it was called past perfect. ...I always wondered why it was called past perfect. Such a strange way to refer to it. And, yes, I get caught doing this sometimes. Luckily I have smart critique partners who are good at noticing this sort of thing. :)Luanne G. Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15762881276976395955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7281599665527326905.post-8513518166372443552013-03-23T11:43:25.903-06:002013-03-23T11:43:25.903-06:00Laura--that's good to know because I was told ...Laura--that's good to know because I was told in a writing class to to it the way I described. The key is to recognize when we're writing in such a way that our readers can be confused. We don't want that. So past perfect is the tool.<br />Donna K. Weaverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15763832177263927311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7281599665527326905.post-52526795630773526052013-03-23T11:38:11.768-06:002013-03-23T11:38:11.768-06:00I know we've discussed it before, but I see th...I know we've discussed it before, but I see this all the time--in published books and in books I'm editing. I think out of all the books I've edited, there was one that used the past perfect tense consistently. I think by the time I'm done, though, my authors know the importance of the tense. :D<br /><br />Even in a long scene, I would definitely recommend using past perfect tense, because otherwise readers won't know that you haven't switched back. There other ways to do it for a long scene. For example, if I were writing a memory, especially a long one, I might instead use italics for the scene instead of past perfect tense--but ONLY in cases where the character is living in that moment in their head, like in a dream or a flashback. (I had instances of that in Rising 1 and 2. Like Mairwyn's flashbacks--they weren't in past perfect tense; they were in italics, because she was lost in her mind, but I still needed to show indication of past and present. Or reality and unreality.)<br /><br />Anyway, I'm glad you wrote this post. :D The more people who understand past perfect tense, the easier it will be for readers to understand what's happening in the story.Laura Josephsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04239501665574945313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7281599665527326905.post-34726594947235925302013-03-23T11:21:58.320-06:002013-03-23T11:21:58.320-06:00Pat--yeah. Talk to yourself. ;)
Kelley Lynn--pres...Pat--yeah. Talk to yourself. ;)<br /><br />Kelley Lynn--present tense is hard. Kudos to you.<br /><br />Konstanz--How long is the scene? If it's very long, you would use past perfect in the first couple of paragraphs to establish the change in time and then switch to past tense because it's less cumbersome. Then when the flashback is almost done, you switch back to past perfect to remind the reader. That way when you return to the story's real time, the reader knows it.<br /><br />Alex--I've read your books and I don't remember there being problems, so I think you're good.Donna K. Weaverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15763832177263927311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7281599665527326905.post-55766723908501320012013-03-23T11:14:59.476-06:002013-03-23T11:14:59.476-06:00Your list of examples is awesome!! It's one of...Your list of examples is awesome!! It's one of those things I have no idea if I do right or wrong. (I guess if I did it really wrong, either my publisher would've said something or I would've been slayed in a review.)Alex J. Cavanaughhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09770065693345181702noreply@blogger.com